Breed bans, insurance discrimination, and, thee, my pit bull

Everyone's calendar is chockablock in December, but here's a day-long symposium I'd make some elbow room for: "Prosecuting Dangerous Owners and Muzzling Dangerous Dogs," presented by a consortium of legal and academic entities. Saturday, Dec. 1, at New York University's Lipton Hall in D'Agostino Hall (108 W. 3rd Street) from 8 a.m. to 5:30 p.m.

Comments

[rooooby]

IS IT ME, OR IS THE ABOVE LINK NOT WORKING??????

[Kay]

It worked for me Rooooby.

[rooooby]

SIGH...sum ting wong........

[Pip]

Umm...It's a downloadable pdf, not a website, so make sure you have popups enabled or you won't be able to download it.

[rooooby]

Thanks Pip, I think I'll pass so I don't get in trouble with my computer..

[Susan Lorinsky]

Hi!
Has there been any news about Duke? I received an e-mail from Jane the ACO in Montville, CT and she has 2 10 yr old greyhounds that were brought there because the 2 parties in a divorce didn't want them. Jane hasn't had any luck with the rescues who won't take them because of their age. This is so sad. Once you're old, everyone wants to toss you out the door, no matter if you're human or animal. Any suggestions?

[Mila]

I have been checking the following site (Appellate Court in Brooklyn for a rendering on the decision for Duke). If you click on the pdf for decisions on the bottom left of the main page, it will take you to the calender. I am thinking his ruling would be in the "HANDOUT decisions" posted during the week. Those seem to give the rulings. Just guessing here, though.

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts/ad2/index.shtml

[Margot]

SUSAN: How sad they won't accept 10 yr.olds. Seniors make the most wonderful pets. Here is a number who might try.

Greyhound Rescue and Rehabilitation
PO Box 572
Cross River, NY 10518

Phone: 914-763-2221
Email: greytest1@aol.com

Good luck.

[kathy in colorado]

thank you Margot for posting that rescue for the greyhounds.....people just don't realize how sweet the elderly hounds can be ----- they only ask for a few years of your care ---- there should be something in the divorce courts to care for pets just like kids.....

Susan ... most greyhound adoption groups require that the greyhound be returned to them if you can't care for them any longer....does your friend know who adopted them out in the first place. Please keep us updated....I am very interested in how this turns out.

[Margot]

That's a very good point Kathy. I would also try and find out who adopted these seniors out. Hoping for a happy ending for these two Greyhounds and pls keep us posted.

[Susan Lorinsky]

Thank you, Margot and Kathy for the information. I forwarded it to Jane and will keep you updated. Jane has 2 senior greys herself and all her charges are her babies. These doggies are in good caring hands. I am going to see Jane Monday morning so I will get to see the greys.

[kathy in colorado]

Susan - you are saying that your friend Jane has these 2 greys? That is a relief as that is so much better than a shelter environment. Greys do so much better with others of their kind and they can sense when they are in a loving environment.....I know one of mine is very sensitive beings and can get stressed out very easily - hopefully these two are not that way and are easing into their new environment easily.

[kathy in colorado]

I have a dear friend - fellow greyhound person - has seven of them - who is in the hospital undergoing a multitude of tests to try to find out what is going on with her. She has had headaches for six months now, has been vomiting and diahrrea and is now down to 134 pounds ---- should be 150. She has been going to two different doctors and a chiropracter and was found to be on a bagful of drugs.....she has been taken off all meds and they have ruled out a stroke but still don't know what is wrong - she has no short term memory and is very child like - barely able to put together a complete sentence --- has no interest in anything and is very dispondent. Please put my friend Lori in your prayers. She is a very good person and does not deserve to have this happen to her - not that anyone does. I just know that my Vivi famblee will help bring her back to health with their prayers and good thoughts. I will start a candlesite for her at http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=lori

[Susan Lorinsky]

Kathy,Margot, check your e-mail. I forwarded the info. from Jane.
Your friend, Lori is in my prayers. I will go light some candles for her.

[Susan Lorinsky]

I just went on the candle site and lit candles for Lori. Vivi only had 9 candles left! It is now near 30. Her site needs a lot of help, everyone!

[Michael Payne]

Posted by Betty - Blessed be the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 'HOLY IS HE!

Psalm 27:14
Wait on the Lord; be of good courage, and He shall strengthen your heart.

Good morning Daddy God. We ask you to bring your healing grace and love to Lori. We ask you Holy Jesus to touch her and bring her back into perfect health. Give the doctors your wisdom and show them what is going on. Bring her health and a cure. Help Lori to feel your love and presence as you bring her back to her family who needs her. Strengthen her mind, remove all adverse affects from the medicine she was on and cleanse her with your healing love. In Jesus's name, we thank you. Keep Katrina, her son and Misty Rose under your protective hand as they travel home. Bring this story to a happy ending with Misty Rose coming to her forever home. We look to you and you alone. Bring our beloved Vivi into rescue Daddy God. Shine your light on her and give your rescuers your wisdom as they bring her to deliverance and safety. Thank you for your care over her and for keeping her safe from all harm. How we praise you!! We need her home Daddy God. Keep all of us safe in your tender and loving care. Give the senior greys a wonderful, forever home with someone who has love and comittment in their hearts towards them. I am so sorry Lord, that people do not care for your creation as you asked us to. Help us to make the wrongs right and to bring relief and love to all who have been abused, neglected and forgotten. In Jesus's Name, we thank you!!

Isaiah 53:4-5
Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon Him, and with His stripes, we are healed.
Holy Jesus, continue to touch our little ones with your precious healing power, CJ, Dante, Felice, Max, Little McGee, Murphy, Mylie, Linus, Kiva, Ellie,(restore all that had to be taken), Morgan,Nicki, Dude, Brandy, Tucker, Lexie, Isabella, Bowen, Heather, Clarus, Prince, Star, Skeeter, Scout, Tigger , Ezmeralda, New Foundland, Tank , Billy, Lilly, Auggie, Sparky, Meeko, Barney. Joey, Skittles, Zoey, Diva,Briar, Fluffy, Cubby, Awmee, , Trevor, Piper, Winnie, Mercy ,Rocket Spit McGee, Scrappy, Jethro, Emma, Chelsea, Iggy, Contessa, Tara, Hope, Mac, David, Tinkerbell., little Filly, Annie, Genevieve, Baby Pittie, Peanut, Mugsy,.Judy, Patches and Reba. All Glory goes to you Daddy. Continue your miraculous healing grace in our brothers and sisters, Madison, Gina, Baby Girl, JL, Lance, Pam, Chris, Pat, Jacque, Kim, BJ, Rose, Mary Ann, Kathleen, Abby, Renee, Renee's uncle and cousin, Lois, Gail T. Button's owner, Joyce, Gail's mom, Julie, Sabina, Kathy, Amanda, Ann, Pam, Chrissy Sharon's dear friend, Jill, little Rachael, Irene, Sharon's mom, Cindy, Tara, Tommy, Rosa, Gayle, Ray, Janice and Lori. Continue to protect beloved Israel and America as they battle terrorism to keep us free. Shelter them and give them victory. Protect the innocent and lead them to safety and provision. We pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Bring Freedom and deliverance for Duke. Give them righteous Judges who will honor your creatures Daddy God and bring Duke home to his mommy where he is meant to be. Help us to raise all the funds that are needed, for you are our provider. Help those who are looking for employment to find the place you want their light to shine. Increase and bless them Daddy. Fill our lives with your glory as we work and watch for your Son Jesus, our Savior. Flood this earth with your glory and power for all to see. Bring Vivi home Daddy God. Let this be the day Daddy God....Let this be the day INDEED...In Jesus's Name we pray....Amen

There are 7 main phases in the life of Jesus Christ-Birth-Sinless life-earthly ministry-sacrificial death on the cross-resurection-ascension to heaven-and His triumphant return. Phase 1-6 have been completed--perfectly fulfilled. Today He intercedes for us and has sent the Holy Spirit to live in us and empower us. What's next? Stage Seven!! While we wait, let us faithfully serve Him here--with our eyes fixed up there...(monthly calendar devotion)

[Susan Lorinsky]

Thank you, Michael for the beautiful prayer. I saw the senior greys today when they came. A male and female, they are so gentle and sweet despite being neglected by the owner and their coats in such bad shape. Jane, the ACO is taking them to the vet and groomer tomorrow. My daughter and I enjoyed giving them some TLC while we were there, but my heart was breaking for them as they looked scared and confused. But Jane is wonderful with the animals who come there and it will work out. I don't know how the ACO's do it. Though Jane told me she would have liked to slug the guy when he dropped off the greys. He was leaving them out all day and having someone bring them in later on saying they liked laying by the bushes. The weather has been chilly besides no one there to watch them. This is why I like animals better than most people, except our bloggers.

[SueG]

Susan, What are these two greyhounds names? And
what group did they come from. If they came from
my group ( broken up now) I would want to take them
back and rehome them myself. There are tons of
people who want seniors. I have a senior grey and she is so easygoing, and such a love. Pls email
me privately if you feel more comfortable.

Thanks

Sue G

[kathy in colorado]

Thank you Michael for including my friend Lori in your prayer - she is slowly getting her speech pattern back and some of her memory - still can't do numbers but is coming along.

Sue G that would be greyt if you could rehome them --- they are such wonderful dogs. Just found one in my area on Craigs list ----- free to good home --- I just can't believe people. I guess that is better than just dumping them tho.

[Susan Lorinsky]

Sue G, I don't have your e-mail but here is the e-mail from Jane the ACO who has them in Montville.
Her e-mail is canine46@yahoo.com
Contact her and talk to her. This would be wonderful. Thanks you. I can't stop thinking about these 2 precious senior babies. They deserve a loving home.

Hi All
Well sucker has once again been stamped on my forehead, but i had to do it,

Same old story, divorce no one wants the dogs, but these seniors have been staying outside ! (only during the day-per owner- they " like curling up under the bushes!) yup sure
They are skinny, think right off the track, but they're coats are really bad, think outside dog coats, so lots of cleaning up to do, hope my groomer is in a good mood tommorrow ! haha no really they are great to us,
Anyway, these two info are

Beamish- neutered male-brindle- 10 years-came from Philadelphia grey rescue
Sweetie -spayed female-brindle - 10 years
botha re housebroken, and have lived with an italian greyhound too . Didn't even bother to temperment test just yet, but will probally tommorrow, but gut instinct is they are fine.
The old owners had the male for 9 years and the female for close to a year, so they will not have to stay together,

So please everyone, these seniors need a wonderful home, no other rescues etc, wanted them due to they're age, but......... we all know how great these seniors can be, so you know me, take the old ones.

thanks to all from Jane and the Senior citizens in the kennel
Between all of us, we will prevail ! And show everyone that seniors can be adopted

[Susan Lorinsky]

The phone number for Jane at her office is
1-860-848-3529. Sorry I can't find her cell# which she told me I could give to you. She checks her e-mail quite often and she will answer calls as soon as she can. Thanks again

[SueG]

Susan, I am on it, we will get these sweeties to
safety and into rescue. I a m pretty sure NGAP
of Philly, Pa will take back their dogs. I already
emailed them, and i have started the lines of communication to get them into a foster ASAP.
Will keep you posted, thanks for caring so m uch
and of course thank Jane for alerting you to the
dogs plight. Sometimes I really hate people, who the hell would let these poor old dogs live outside.

[SueG]

oh boy, Jane is going to be bombarded with phone calls. I just got off the phone with NGAP and of course they want their dog back if it is t heir dogs, but if not they will send a Ct rep out to get
the dogs into foster immed. Will keep you all posted

[Margot]

Thank you SueG for helping Jane with the seniors. Divorce or not how can anyone just dump them. I am not involved with Greys but I love dogs and can't understand how awful people can be. I know Jane, SueG and greyhound rescue will try to find these greys wonderful homes.

[SueG]

Susan, I need Jane's cell phone to check up on progress, if nothing has been done I will drive out
and get the seniors this week. I can't stand the thought of these dogs in a shelter, they can hang
with me until they find a home.
My email is Hounddog@warwick.net

[Susan Lorinsky]

Sue G, Jane has been in contact with Philly Rescue. If she can't find homes for them by week's end, they will come get them. I don't have her cell#, but you can e-mail her and she responds pretty quick. Jane had them groomed today and tomorrow they will go to the vet. They are in very good hands with Jane. Monville shelter is a good one. The community really supports Jane, always donating stuff, they painted it and donated air conditioning last year. Volunteers are always welcome. My daughter and I help and we don't live in Montville.

[Darlene O'Sullivan]

HEY STRANGERS!!!!!!!!!!! SUE G. - YOU NEED HELP DARLING????? I DON'T HAVE MUCH LEFT BUT THE GIRLS AND I COULD HELP OUT IF YOU NEED ANYTHING. PLEASE, JUST HOLLAR AND WE WILL BE RIGHT THERE. GO GET THOSE BABIES, DARLING!!!
YOU GUYS NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE ME!!!!!!

[rooooby]

DANTE UPDATE FROM VALERIE:
Hello Everyone,

Well, I got the results of Dante’s MRI. I must admit, I was very apprehensive/ scared about making the call to get the results.
The good news is that Dante doesn’t have to have another surgery and I don’t have to try and decide whether or not to do it. I really was not looking forward to that decision.

The internist that did the abdominal ultrasound before the mast cell tumor surgery last month said that he saw a mass where the ureter meets the bladder and that was probably the cause for the enlarged kidney. He thought that the mass was partially obstructing and not allowing all the urine to drain out which would need surgery to open it up again. That is why we had to do the MRI for definitive diagnosis. Well, the MRI did not pick up any mass (good thing). The only thing the MRI showed was that the kidney is larger than normal (hydronephosis) and the ureter where it meets the kidney is also enlarged (hydroureter). However, there is no explanation for why this kidney is enlarging. Therefore, there is also no treatment. So, the surgeon suggested that I take Dante in for blood work and abdominal ultrasound every 2-3 months to see if it is advancing or not. I asked what we could do if it is advancing and she said “palliative care only”. That is the bad news.

She also said that Dante has defied all statistics to date and agreed that he is my miracle boy. I told her that I really believe that the power of prayer and positive healing energy that everyone has been directing his way has truly helped his recovery and physical health. He feels the love. So with that in mind, I ask, please, that everyone continue to pray &/or send positive healing energy his way so that his kidney does not deteriorate any further than what it is currently at. Currently it is fully functional and if it doesn’t change then he could be here for a long time to come which is what I am praying for.

Now, I need to ask if anyone knows anything about holistic health for a kidney? I will call his acupuncturist/ holistic vet tomorrow but I was wondering if anyone else has any suggestions? If so, I would love to hear them.

I really appreciate everyone’s endless support. THANK YOU!!! Dante is blessed to have so many people who care about him. He is a VERY SPECIAL boy.

It is late and I am very tired from the stress of all of this and because I am fighting a cold. So, I will call it a night and hope that I can finally get a good night sleep knowing that I have done everything I can do for Dante and that he is doing great right now.

Thank you again.

Valerie, Dante, Trotter and Zipper

[Darlene O'Sullivan]

HERE'S AN IMPORTANT PETITION TO SIGN******
PLEASE PASS IT EVERYWHERE.

PLEASE CROSS-POST!

Hi Friends,

I have just read and signed the petition: "Stop Gassing Animals in Texas"

Please take a moment to read about this important issue, and join me in signing the petition. It takes just 30 seconds, but can truly make a difference.

*Please sign here:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/249938390

[Kay]

Darlene, I signed the petition and am sending the link to everyone I know.

[kathy in colorado]

Good news on Dante ---- I agree Val - prayers help tremendously. Darlene sweetie - signed the petition - SueG - I'm glad to hear that the rescues want the dog back if it is theirs and will try to help ---- that's how the rescues out here are also --- want to keep track of the dogs and make sure they are in good homes.....and everyone knows greyhounds are NOT outdoor dogs. Thanks for stepping in and helping out these precious souls.

[Laura]

Hi Everyone,

Good news on Dante. My prayers will be with him. I just ran across this post on craigs list and it saddened me. Another case of "can't keep the animals".

http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/pet/470959156.html

Laura

[Michael Payne]

Posted by Betty - Blessed be the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 'HOLY IS HE!
Psalm 121:3
My help comes from the Lord, which made heaven and earth.

Good morning Daddy God. Thank you for holding us in your arms and keeping us strong and thank you for comforting us. There are so many wrongs in the earth that need to be made right for your beloved creation. Help us to continue to save, nurture, restore and bring new life and love to those who are neglected, abused and left alone. Daddy God, shine your light on Vivi. We need her to come home. The work will continue always. We won't stop because Vivi is found and is safe at home. She has begun a good work and we will complete it Daddy. We speak blessings on Vivi's food, water and shelter. Strengthen and renew her vitality and keep her safe from any harm. Surround her with your Mighty angels and powerful Holy Spirit. Comfort and cuddle her. Make her feel safe in your arms and cause her to trust your chosen ones. Bring them to the meeting place you have prepared and bring Vivi into the brilliant light of your glory and rescue. Continue to hold Lori and bring her in to perfect health. Continue your healing grace in beloved Dante, Iggy, Contessa, Madison, Kathleen and bring Bowdee home Daddy God. Bring him home to his mommy. Free Duke. Please touch the judge's heart and cause him to let Duke go free. Bless Kathy's quilt for him, so the funds can be raised to pay for his care. Set him totally free to live with his family. We thank you Daddy God and we praise you!!!!! In Jesus's Name.

Isaiah 53:4-5
Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon Him, and with His stripes, we are healed.
Holy Jesus, continue to touch our little ones with your precious healing power, CJ, Dante, Felice, Max, Little McGee, Murphy, Mylie, Linus, Kiva, Ellie,(restore all that had to be taken), Morgan,Nicki, Dude, Brandy, Tucker, Lexie, Isabella, Bowen, Heather, Clarus, Prince, Star, Skeeter, Scout, Tigger , Ezmeralda, New Foundland, Tank , Billy, Lilly, Auggie, Sparky, Meeko, Barney. Joey, Skittles, Zoey, Diva,Briar, Fluffy, Cubby, Awmee, , Trevor, Piper, Winnie, Mercy ,Rocket Spit McGee, Scrappy, Jethro, Emma, Chelsea, Iggy, Contessa, Tara, Hope, Mac, David, Tinkerbell., little Filly, Annie, Genevieve, Baby Pittie, Peanut, Mugsy,.Judy, Patches and Reba. All Glory goes to you Daddy. Continue your miraculous healing grace in our brothers and sisters, Madison, Gina, Baby Girl, JL, Lance, Pam, Chris, Pat, Jacque, Kim, BJ, Rose, Mary Ann, Kathleen, Abby, Renee, Renee's uncle and cousin, Lois, Gail T. Button's owner, Joyce, Gail's mom, Julie, Sabina, Kathy, Amanda, Ann, Pam, Chrissy Sharon's dear friend, Jill, little Rachael, Irene, Sharon's mom, Cindy, Tara, Tommy, Rosa, Gayle, Ray, Janice and Lori. Continue to protect beloved Israel and America as they battle terrorism to keep us free. Shelter them and give them victory. Protect the innocent and lead them to safety and provision. We pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Bring Freedom and deliverance for Duke. Give them righteous Judges who will honor your creatures Daddy God and bring Duke home to his mommy where he is meant to be. Help us to raise all the funds that are needed, for you are our provider. Help those who are looking for employment to find the place you want their light to shine. Increase and bless them Daddy. Fill our lives with your glory as we work and watch for your Son Jesus, our Savior. Flood this earth with your glory and power for all to see. Bring Vivi home Daddy God. Let this be the day Daddy God....Let this be the day INDEED...In Jesus's Name we pray....Amen

There are 7 main phases in the life of Jesus Christ-Birth-Sinless life-earthly ministry-sacrificial death on the cross-resurection-ascension to heaven-and His triumphant return. Phase 1-6 have been completed--perfectly fulfilled. Today He intercedes for us and has sent the Holy Spirit to live in us and empower us. What's next? Stage Seven!! While we wait, let us faithfully serve Him here--with our eyes fixed up there...(monthly calendar devotion)

[Susan Lorinsky]

Beautiful prayer, Michael. I appreciated your words about Vivi. She is the reason we are all involved in saving animals. The top goal has to be finding her and getting her home to Jill and Rick. That would be the best affirmation of what this group does.
I forgot to mention that Jane sometimes takes home her boarders so she can watch them more closely. She has 2 senior greys of her own, so she knows their needs.

[Pam A.]

Vivi candlesite has only 15 candles that are lit for her. Anybody care to light a few more?

[rooooby]

PAM,
VIVI NOW HAS 22 CANDLES...I got lucky and was able to light 6 more...

DANTE STILL NEEDS EVERYONE'S PRAYERS...HE IS A REMARKABLE DOG, BUT HE STILL CAN USE ALL THE PRAYERS HE CAN GET! ( 0;

[Kay]

You can light five candles for each comment. I do 5 blank, 5 with the letter a, 5 with the letter b and so forth until I reach by limit of 25.

[Pam A.]

Thanks for the info Kay.

[Libby]

Anyone see Matt Lauer in Greenland yesterday on the Today show adn the segment on Greenland sled dogs?

Here is a link about mistreatment of those very dogs. Warning, it is very graphic but it is what goes on in the world. These dogs are not wild animals either like Matt Lauer depicted. They are recognized breed and exhibited in the UK and in Canada also. Maybe y'all can figure out how to put some pressure on Greenland officials!

http://www.canadianvoiceforanimals.org/July4Update.html

[Laura]

Hi Everyone,

Just checking in to see if there's any more news on our Miss Vivi. Whatever came of the sighting at the toll booths? I'm not asking for any specific details but just some word as to whether it's still being looked into.

Have a great night everyone,

Laura

[SueG]

update on the senior grey: I have been in contact
with Jane from the shelter, what a nice lady.
We are trying very hard to find a home for the
girly girl, 11 yrs old, and not cat friendly so I
cannot bring her home with my ancient 18 yr old cats. I have lots of people networking with me to
get her into a home ASAP. It is amazing how people
react when a dog needs ahome. I know you girls
appreciate the adrenilan (sp?) flow when a dog needs
help, I specialize in sighthounds so I am so p umped
up right now. Will update when a happy ending is
upon us

Love ya all

[Susan Lorinsky]

Hi Sue G, Yes, Jane is pretty special. Montville is very lucky to have her as their ACO. She just e-mailed me that the greys are eating like pigs, which pleases her enormously and is working to get them great homes. She also told me that the lost female grey that Bonnie & Jackie e-mailed about was found by someone who took her to a vet and she passed away. Jane said she is so disgusted by peoples' treatment of their pets that she's speechless. I feel the same way.

[kathy in colorado]

Susan ---- why did the femal grey pass away? Was she out on her own for so long or neglected or ????

[Susan Lorinsky]

Kathy, I don't know. Jane didn't have that information. Though from what she said, it sounded like neglect was more to blame.
Today my daughter and I are going to the Equine Affair in Springfield, MA for a wonderful day learning about horses. There are only 3 of these events held in the country each year. We always go and Ashley misses school on Friday. Her teachers wanted to know all about it. They have everything from Clinics to demos to shopping to the breed barn (our favorite) where you see, learn and pet all kinds of horses. They also have the minis, mules, Nakota horses and miniature donkeys who are so adorable. They had a baby mini donkey last year and I was ready to take him home. If you stay at night, they have a show called Fantasia, the musical history of the horse. We've seen it twice already so we're not staying this year. Our friend has her Andulusian at the breed barn so we're going there first.
Hope we have some good news soon about Vivi, Duke and all our babies.

[Kay]

Can anyone give me some advice. My two puppies are now 11 months old and 50 and 55 lbs. I have tried everything to get them to quit jumping up on me and it has not worked. My arms are a bloody mess from all the scratches. They are not mean just full of energy. I love them very much and want them to calm down some. They still are not doing real good on a leach, they pull and jump but I keep on trying, Its the jumping up that I need to stop. Thanks.

[Kathleen Stephenson]

Kay - I know just what you are talking about. Thank goodness Onnie is not so bad about this. She does keep my right arm scratched up though jumping on it when I am sitting at my desk in the bedroom. She jumps up on that arm to let me know she wants to go outside. I look like a battered woman sometimes for sure.

I have another question. I REALLY need help with this one. Onnie is getting very large, and now has decided SHE wants to be the Alpha dog over me. When she does not want to do something, like come back inside the house, she bears those big teeth of hers at me. HELP. What do you do to break this NOW before she bites me?

[Kay]

Kathleen, you and I really need help. My skin is thin and the lightest touch of the dog toe nails does a number on my skin. I haven't had them get aggressive with me though so I can't help there.

[Margot]

kathleen: Please don't let this become a potentially dangerous situation. The best thing would be to have a trainor come to YOUR house to observe Onnie and give you advice. You must nip this in the bud because if Onnie senses fear on your part she will only become more agressive. I can't give you advice long distance without seeing her behavior and when it happens. Is she also protective of her food? Baring teeth is not something I think you should try and handle alone. There are ways to break a dog of this and you can become the alpha but someone who knows must show you how. Good Luck.

Margot

[SueG]

Kathleen, You need to implement the dog training
which is called " Nothing in life is Free" try and google it and see if it comes up. I know t his training works well on lots of dogs. I for one will
never tolerate a dog growling at me. Best of luck and I hope you can work thru this problem with
Onnie

[Karen]

Turn your back and give them no attention if they jump in you. Only give attention to positive behavior. Do not let Onnie walk through a door without permission. Have her sit, open the door, when you are ready, release her. If she gets up before you say so, shut the door. You can do this very quietly and without drawing attention to negative behavior- simple consequences- "I stand up too soon and the door shuts". Same with food bowls, put it down, then give her permission to eat. If she lunges at it pick it up. Simple things like this can really restore order in a house- this kind of goes with "nothing in life is free". This should work with Kay's pups too. Dogs can really benefit from taking a class- it is socializing and helps make them more fun to have around. Even professional trainers often join a class with their puppies.

[Pam A.]

I tried turning my back, but if my dog had muddy feet, I just got the back side of my clothes dirty instead of the front. A trick I learned about dog jumping was to grab their front paws when they start to leap up on you and then make them stand on their back feet while you are holding their front paws. Pretty soon they want to be released. If you can, hold onto them for a little while and then release. Pretty soon when they come running to jump on you, they will remember, "Oh yeah, we'll have to stand on our back feet again." And they should quit jumping. At least that worked for me. Anyway, lots of luck to both Kay and Kathleen. You can't let Onnie get the best of you, Kathleen. Only acknowledge or reward Onnie's positive behavior. Let us know how it turns out.

[Kay]

Thanks for the info. I will try one and if that does not work I will try the other. I'm not sure I would be able to hold their paws as they are stronger than me, but I will try it. I will let you know how this goes. I have to get some control over them.

[Kathleen Stephenson]

MARGOT, SUEG, KAREN AND PAM - Thanks for the suggestions for Kay and I. I am noticing Onnie getting more aggressive with that display of teeth with each day. It breaks my heart, because she can be so sweet and loving. I'm going to check into some serious obedience classes this weekend to help me deal with her. That chow in her is coming out, and that mouth and teeth baring is NOT a pretty sight. Right now I have to admit I am getting afraid of her, and I know she is sensing this because the behavior is escalating definitely.

I'll Google that technique SueG to see if I can just started. My friend who trains and handles dogs, Amanda from Camp4Paws, noticed this behavior the last time she groomed Onnie for me. She mentioned it to me when I picked Onnie up, and I noticed Onnie getting worse just as she had predicted she would. Amanda has control with her, but she is walking all over me.

She has even bared her teeth at Sophie (my little chihuahua) about three times, and I had to get between them for fear she would hurt Sophie. If I don't get control, I know I am in serious danger just as Margot mentioned.

It will break my heart if I have to have Onnie put down, but I would not feel right adopting her to someone else with this aggression for fear she might hurt them as well. I just woke up and proceeded to put her in her kennel room and she bared the teeth at me. I was able to put her leash around her neck at a distance with her baring those teeth and gums at me, and then she proceeded to the kennel room without any problem. But she used to mind my commands of "kennel room" and go to her room and bed without a problem before which was wonderful.

I'll try these suggestions and pray this will work for us. I feared this chow in her from the time I found her because I know what their dispositions can be like. Will let everyone know how we progress. Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

[Marty Lee]

Kathleen

Are you having thoughts about putting Onnie down if she doesn't get better?

[rooooby]

DON'T FORGET THE CANDLE SITE:
VIVI
DANTE
LORI - (KATHY CO FRIEND
SERIE (MARNIES DOGGIE)
B+ - (MADISON)

KATHLEEN, I HOPE SOMEONE HELPS YOU WITH ONNIE...POOR DOGGIE, JUST BECAUSE SHE HAS CHOW IN HER, DON'T GIVE UP ON HER. YOU JUST NEED HELP BADLY!

[Margot]

Kathleen:Since your friend Amanda has been able to observe Onnie I think you should discuss the situation with her and get her opinion. You must think of your safety first and that of your other dogs. It's impossible to enjoy having a dog if you are afraid of her. I don't want to frighten you but living with an agressive dog is like having a loaded gun in the house. Rooooooby, don't slam me but there are worse things than putting a dog down humanely because they have no conception of tomorrow. Onnie's behavior is entirely different from Kay's problem. Any dog can be taught not to jump by going to obedience class and learning the basic commands of sit, stay and down. Please have a KNOWLEDGEABLE trainer evaluate Onnie and then take it from there. Keep me posted.

[Kathleen Stephenson]

Thanks everyone. I am waiting for Amanda to get back to Memphis and then hopefully get her to start working with Onnie and myself on our obedience. I know Amanda and would rather work with her than anyone. I have seen the results of her beautiful shepherds, and they are incredible and very loved as well.

Marty, this will be the LAST option of putting her down. I certainly don't want to do so, but like Margot mentioned I have to protect my other animals and myself as well. I spoke to someone today who has several large dogs and some aggressive breeds, and she gave me several excellent suggestions to help in the meantime I feel. One was putting a long lead on Onnie's collar so I can pull at it and correct her when she growls or looks aggressive from a distance. Right now I look like a fool using the leash to put a loop around her and lead her to he kennel room when she misbehaves.

I'm going to get busy today with this training and be persistent and consistent with her. She is very smart and I believe can be trained, but if not now it may be too late.

I'll keep everyone posted on her progress. I hardly slept last night from being so upset over the whole situation and the thought I might be forced into putting her down if I could not get this under control.

[Ophelia]

Hi Kathleen,
Regarding Onnie, may need to take him for a physical as well. I have a coworker whose springer spaniel was acting very aggressive all of a sudden so his wife gave it to the rescue group because she was worried for her kids. As it turned out, the dog was sick and died shortly after rescue took it. In hindsight, they figured the dog was feeling sick and that was the reason for the personality change. Hoping everything works out for you and Onnie.
Take care,
Ophelia

[Rosa]

KATHLEEN...HOW long and HOW OFTEN do you keep ONNIE in this "KENNEL ROOM"?? maybe that is the problem? you never mentioned this before, I cant imagine this dog turning on you or Tinkerbelle all of a sudden. YOU need to make her feel like part of the "PACK". Maybe you are making her feel like she is not part of the "PACK" by doing this.
Have you thought of taking her for a daily walk? this might help also. Watch some Cesar Milan shows that might help you understand what I am trying to suggest.

[Kathleen Stephenson]

Onnie is in the kennel room when I am at work (I will not leave her out with the other two or around the house for the chewing issue). She comes out and stays out playing (and walks) when I get home from work until around 11:00-12:00 at night and then goes to sleep in her kennel room until the sun rises the next morning. I let her out in the backyard then to play until time for me to go to work again. Believe me, she gets plenty of love and attention.

[Michael Payne]

She just has to learn that you are the Alpha in the pack...not her. As soon as she learns that you are the leader, you will see a difference. The training will show this to her. Don't give up on her. And I pray you don't put her down. If you can't keep her, there are people who are experts with this type of breed. Look at all of your options. You and Onnie are in our prayers

[Rosa]

Kathleen,
Maybe you don't realize it but your keeping Onnie Isolated from the others is probably causing her fustration that brings on chewing and MOST important Socialization problems that you are Now experiencing.

Even though you feel you are trying to keep everyone safe from her she is most likely feeling punished by having to go into this Kennel Room while the others get to roam freely and is acting out becuase of it.

You need to have someone help you reintroduce all the pets in your home and start from there. SHE is going to need help now breaking this cycle for her own sake and NOT BE PUT TO SLEEP.
Like Betty say's there are people who will help her and even want to adopt her. You have always said what a sweet girl Onnie was. IF this has been slowly happening then its because of the ISOLATION and lack of SOCIALIZATION skills.

[rooooby]

Margot,
I would never slam you darlin'...I just keep thinking that the CHOW and PITBULL words are bad news for many people. I also wonder if maybe Onnie is in her crate too much..How many hours a day is she in her crate?

I had trouble getting my Lilly to come in after being outside either playing or going potty. A trainer said to use a treat to bribe her. She loved treats and would come, I'd walk in the house with the treat and praise her for coming all the way..Now I jsut tell her, BYE BYE LILLY and head for the house. She comes running like the wind!

[Kathleen Stephenson]

To make things clear, Onnie is NOT in a crate. She has a large bedroom with a tiled floor, a wonderful bed, a large window which goes down to the floor with sunshine coming in and she can look out all day, and LOTS of toys, as well as food, water and bones. There is nothing she can chew or destroy in this room while still in her puppy chewing stage.

I believe I know the source of the problem now. My trainer friend Amanda warned me at Onnie's last grooming at her house about this aggression. She warned me to put a collar on Onnie and leave it on her, as she said this is a type of dominance item between a human and a dog.

Last night Onnie and I went for a car ride (she loves to jump in the backseat and ride in the car and is very good). I decided to head to Petco. When I got there, I ran in and purchased a new collar for Onnie and a longer leash. Upon returning to the car, I put the collar and leash on her so we could go into Petco. We purchased a new toy, some bones and some treats, and then finished our car ride. I am leaving the collar and leash on her (except when she is in the room by herself I remove the leash) to give me some control to pull at the leash lightly and give her commands. She has responded GREAT to this, and the aggression has stopped somewhat. I am working on training her with the commands, and she is doing pretty good. I think the "no collar" issue had a lot to do with this change in her aggressiveness, as she was trying to exert her dominance without the collar. In fact, with the collar she returned to responding to my command of "kennel" when it was time to go to bed last night.

She had outgrown the other collar, and that is why I removed the collar before. With the collar on, I was able to give each of them bones, they all rested on the bed and enjoyed their bones, and there was NO AGGRESSION shown by Onnie towards Sophie like before. Little Missy (S)tinkerbell will be getting her collar back on today also, and I am hoping her aggression towards Sophie will end as well.

Things are much more peaceful at the house since the new collar and leash entered last night. I believe this is the strength I needed over Onnie to maintain my pack leader status and halt this aggression.

[Margot]

I don't mean to disagree with anyone because some of the points were very valid. However, a dog not coming into the house when called or jumping on you is entirely different from one that curls his lip back and bares his teeth. That is a true sign of aggression and cannot be tolerated. Onnie definitely needs to be evaluated by someone who knows dog behavior and I do agree that socialization is very important for all dogs.When I was breeding and showing Dobermans I always told my puppy buyers that from the day they brought the puppy home to always put their hand in the feeding dish and at the first sign of any agression what to do and not to tolerate it.You must let the puppy know who is Alpha in the pack. It's a big leap for Kathleen to go from having a little Chi to trying to train a Chow mix. Sorry to be so long but this is a subject I'm very passionate about having seen first hand what an aggressive dog can do.

[Kathleen Stephenson]

Thanks Margot. It IS an entirely different world going from a Chi to Onnie. I am working with training Onnie with some treats off the dog bar at Petco. I am anxious for Onnie's next vet visit also. I think she has more than exceeded that "about 45-50" pound dog the vet mentioned. My guess is closer to a 60-70 lb dog now. She is close to the size of my Samoyed I had many years ago, and Nick was 80+ lb.

So far, she is really amazing me. I have the treats on my computer desk, and she, Tink and Sophie are all sitting very nicely while I give them treats. Onnie wanted to come over and jump up, but I held the treat high so she had to look up and sit her bottom down (something someone taught me yesterday). She has already learned she does not get rewarded if she does not sit when I tell her to do so. We learned this in about 5 minutes this morning. She is smart, I know I can train her and everything will be okay. I feel so much better than before and actually slept last night. The night before when I could not sleep worrying about this behavior, I watched several episodes of "The Dog Whisperer" on TV - I watch his show all the time anyway.

She also wants to bite at the food rather eagerly when I offer her treats, so I have made her learn to accept it out of the palm of my hand and used the word "gentle" which she responds to as well.

The last 24 hours of "Life with Onnie" have been SO much better. I believe we are well on the way to a better-trained Onnie and happier household. Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. I fell in love with this dog from the moment I saw her, and I will do anything and everything to make our lives all happy together. If her problems are fixable (and I feel now they are), they will get fixed.

[Kathleen Stephenson]

I had to post another good blog about Onnie's progress. She now comes by me and does the prettiest "sits" for her treats. She definitely knows sit now! I feel as proud as a mama when her baby takes its first steps!

I have seen no more aggression today. I ordered a pizza tonight, and when I went to the back gate to meet the guy delivering it, Onnie went with me. She started to jump up on the gate, and I could see the fear in this guy's eyes. No getting close to the gate for him! I turned and told her to sit, and I was so proud of her because she obeyed me without any treat. She was rewarded with a piece of pizza, but I insisted she sit quietly while I put it in her dish and she obeyed.

One thing for sure, I feel Onnie will be an excellent guard dog. People see her and they are afraid - those teeth are not a pretty sight for sure. Just as long as she uses them for the right reason!

[Karen]

Now that you have a good sit, start practicing stays and coming when called. Don't correct, just back it up a bit when it doesn't work (meaning if 5 feet is too far away, try it from 4 feet). Start with sit, stay while you walk away 3 feet and then come back and reward while she is still sitting. It is important to set her up to be successful. You can gradually lengthen the distance and time she is asked to stay. Dogs love to learn things and they learn best when they get positive reinforcement for very specific behavior. With those three skills and walking calmly on a leash you will have much of what you need.

[Kathleen Stephenson]

Thanks Karen. I am just amazed how fast she is grasping things. I believe someone has worked with her before I found her. She was completely housebroken, wonderful getting into the car and riding quietly, walks on a leash beautifully (which is an incredible blessing since she could pull me all over the place with my arthritis), and now the sit.

I cannot help but believe someone had put time into working with her, but I searched and searched and never found anyone looking for her. Very strange indeed.

She has done the stay for very short distances for me last night also. I have also gotten her used to sitting and waiting while I put her treat in the bowl for her. She is just amazing so far.

The next task is little (S)tinkerbell. Now that will be the challenge for sure. Tink is the most stubborn doggie I have ever owned.

Thanks again for your help everyone. It has been so wonderful not seeing her aggressive the last day or two now. I would love to find someone to help me train her to also be an assistance dog for me with my arthritis. I think she would be incredible at this.

[Pam A.]

Well, another case where you can't stress enough the importance of micro-chipping your dog. Three weeks ago a dog went missing at the air base near where I live. The family searched and posted and there was not one report of a sighting. Last Friday, they got a call from a vet clinic 1600 miles away. Their dog was there. Today the dog came home and there was a very happy reunion. Still not sure how the dog got there. All that's being reported is that the person who dropped off the dog had on some type of military uniform.

[Susan Lorinsky]

Pam, that is quite a story. Nice to read of the very happy ending. Just goes to show that one can never give up. Miracles happen and I hope Vivi's is high on the list. We need it.

[Michael Payne]

That is great news Kathleen. I am so happy for you and Onnie. love, Betty

[rooooby]

CALLING ALL CANDLE LIGHTERS! VIVI'S CANDLE SITE IS RUNNING LOW...DON'T FORGET KATHY-CO'S FRIEND LORI AND
VALERIES PRECIOUS DANTE WHO NEEDS PRAYERS TO HELP HIM STAY WELL!

[Kay]

I would love to Rooooby, but my 24 hours are not up yet.

[Margot]

Kathleen: so glad things are working out for you and Onnie.

[Kathleen Stephenson]

Thanks Betty and Margot - I am so happy things are better with Onnie too. She is my sweetheart - just has a bit of a temper like her Mommy. But she is learning to control it just like Mommy has had to learn too.

If and when I travel by car to Texas to see my son and his family, Onnie will probably be my traveler. She is incredible in the car, will come to me and not dart when out of the car, and she also looks very LARGE now and threatening. I feel she would be a fantastic form of security in the car with me.

I have learned to take her with me whenever I go out at night on short errands for my safety. Memphis may not be that large, but we are either #1 or #2 in crime all the time! I feel much safer with her along.

[Pam A.]

Kathleen, glad to hear that you and Onnie have been able to work things out. Good job!!

[Cherita]

Kathleen - Karen is right on what she is telling you. Get a strong come-recall and it may save you both someday. My little Sav ran out of the car in MO straight down the drive way towards the interstate. Sav - Come and she was back at my feet.
I am so glad Onnie is responding to commands.

[Susan Lorinsky]

Hi everyone,
Jane the ACO from Montville e-mailed me that the senior greys went to Greyhound Options Rescue and were placed in a foster home. The foster woman wants seniors and is going to keep them. She loves them and Jane says they are doing great. She sends her thanks to all, especially to Sue G, for helping Sweetie and Beamish.

[Kathleen Stephenson]

SUSAN - That is such wonderful news about the seniors! Yipppeee...

Now, I am definitely a senior. Do you think she might adopt me too?

[Kay]

Since there is not an obedience training place within 100 miles of where I live I am working with the puppies as best I can. I actually made some progress today. I got both of them to sit for a treat. Then one of them came back in a few minutes and sat in front of me and looked at me like, I did it again, now where is my treat. I am very excited that I am finally getting somewhere. They are still so full of energy it is not easy working with both of them, but they get too upset if they get separated.

[Pam A.]

That's funny, Kay. Good to hear you are making progress, too. I have a decorative biscuit jar that I keep my doggie treats in. It's on the top shelf of the entertainment center. When Mabel starts to whine, I'll say "What do you want?" She looks at me and then at the shelf where the biscuit jar is. It's like, "Lady, figure it out!!"

[Laura]

Hi Everyone,

I had a problem getting to the new site also. I had to go through my old searches in the drop down menu. And then I just put this in my favorites and it seems to be okay.

Vivi always thinking about you and missing you also.
May God keep you safe and warm until your rescue.

Laura

[Nancy]

NO ONE BOOK CAN CONTAIN THE SUM TOTAL OF KNOWLEDGE ON A PARTICULAR SUBJECT BUT THIS ONE COMES CLOSE.AM LOOKING FOR THE AUTHOR'S SECOND & FOLLOWUP BOOK ON THE SUBJECT.